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May. 5th, 2010 10:28 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
winneganfakeOk, this sums up my reaction fairly well, given that I finished the book half an hour ago, and I'm still having trouble parsing complete sentences:
The difference would be the fact that I'm currently still muttering a lot less complimentary language about said author.
The difference would be the fact that I'm currently still muttering a lot less complimentary language about said author.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:39 pm (UTC)I like the Dresden books a lot.
As at least a couple people have pointed out, yes, Harry Dresden is sexist, and it bites him in the ass. Repeatedly.
However, Jim Butcher does not appear to be nearly so sexist as his creation, and Harry's sexism is used as a flaw (which kind of infers that Butcher thinks it's "bad" or at least stupid).
Harry's sexism makes him a more interesting character and it is a flaw he does manage, on occasion, to defeat. He also acknowledges pretty frequently he's one of a dying breed in that department.
I also find the rest of Vito's review to be, well, less than good. While I can't argue the Chicago geography thing, as I've only driven through or sprinted the airport, I can say that I cannot believe that compared with the Anita Blake* books he finds Butcher MORE sexist. Good fucking grief. Just because they're written by a woman doesn't make them A. lousy and B. pretty fucking sexist.
As to the eye thing... it affects EVERYONE like that, not just women.
*I have REAMS to say on the suckiness and internalized misogyny of Anita Blake.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:44 pm (UTC)Aaaand it would not be an ad homenim attack. AND it is not a knee-jerk "you're too sensitive" response.
NONE of which I mind in the slightist.
And I'm an Anita Blake fan. And when you say you have reams to say about the flaws, you know what my response is? "Oh, tell me more."
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:45 pm (UTC)Ugh... Ok, later. But I remind you, you asked for it.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:50 pm (UTC)But if I *do* read the Butcher books, and I *don't* like them, I might be back. With an essay. A long essay.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:55 pm (UTC)Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-05 10:56 pm (UTC)Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-06 12:48 am (UTC)Wait...wait. WHAT?
You, who is hopping up and down upset about Harry Dresden sexism, which is portrayed in the books as a FLAW of Harry's, and is NOT something that is glorified or portrayed as a positive attribute, YOU are a fan of a character who has had unwilling sex with MULTIPLE male characters in the series, INCLUDING a SIXTEEN year old boy?!?
Sooooooo, a main male character who has an old fashioned chauvinist attitude that is painted as a flaw and pointed out to him repeatedly as such is "too problematic" and you won't read them. But a book that has a main female character who takes away men's self control, their ability to say no and fucks them, including a minor boy, THAT'S fine. Rape isn't rape when it's a woman doing it?
"The books seem sexist, and that's a problem for me. I don't care that it's "just entertainment."
It seems, then that what you mean is that the books are sexist against women, and that's a problem for you. When a book is sexist against men, that's no problem at all.
~Aramada
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-06 12:58 am (UTC)I didn't say I have no problems with the Anita Blake books. YOU are saying I have no problems with the books. YOU are saying this stuff, you are in fact saying very specific things about what I don't have problems with.
It's kind of offensive.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-06 01:13 am (UTC)Anita Blake is a rapist.
You are an Anita Blake fan.
Anita Blake has raped a teenager.
You are an Anita Blake FAN.
By your own statements, you are a FAN of a character who rapes men. Rapes a minor. Has raped MULTIPLE people through multiple books. And you STILL call yourself a fan.
You are a self-proclaimed fan of a serial female rapist, and you have no problem declaring yourself as such.
But by god, don't read a book that has a contextually flawed chauvinistic male character. That would be wrong.
Be a fan of a serial female rapist. That's MUCH more politically correct.
~Aramada
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-06 01:24 am (UTC)And I came here originally to ask a balancing opinion for a critical opinion of the Dresden novels, in order to be fair. I didn't come here and say, "Oh, boy, never gonna read THOSE suckers."
I said I had heard they might be problematic and what did Dmitri think of those problems.
And I did think that maybe the Dresden books and their problems would take up too much time if they weren't worth the effort, but I was troubling to get a second opinion.
Re: hoo boy, this opens up a can of worms....
Date: 2010-05-06 01:50 am (UTC)Fan is the word you chose. You should probably think about why that was the first word that came to mind. Why that, when you were thinking about how to describe yourself in relation to a female serial rapist, you immediately went with "fan".
Also, "fan" is NOT EVEN REMOTELY the same thing as "critic." They are not, in fact, synonyms.
For example, compare these two statements:
I am a fan of Emily Dickinson.
I am a critic of Fred Phelps.
Please note, the top one is something I approve of, am in favour of. The second is one I disapprove of, am not in favour of.
You said exactly zero about "being a critic" (or critical for that matter), or "writing about them from a psychoanalytic perspective" or anything else. You said, flatly, and simply, you were "an Anita Blake fan." You are retconning like a mofo at the moment. You either need to start actually saying what you mean, or just stop altogether, because this "No, no, even though those are the words I said, that's not what I MEANT. I meant this COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thing with totally different, unrelated words." thing has gotten so very old.
"And I came here originally to ask a balancing opinion for a critical opinion of the Dresden novels, in order to be fair. I didn't come here and say, "Oh, boy, never gonna read THOSE suckers.""
Lady, you REALLY gotta start going back and reading what you wrote. Actually, you DID come in here, right off the bat, and say you weren't planning on reading them.
Here is the VERY first comment you made: "I was reading about the Dresden Files series the other day, and I just feel it's not for me. So I expect to be spared this pain."
That was it, the TOTALITY of your comment. Please point out in that comment where you "came here originally to ask a balancing opinion". Please point out where you say anything about looking for any opinion at all. It's not there. What IS there is a flat statement that you feel they aren't for you and you "expect to be spared this pain", a fairly clear statement of your lack of intent to read them.
You may well have segued into something else later, but you did NOT "come here originally to ask a balancing opinion." You came here originally to state you didn't plan on reading them 'cause they weren't for you.
"And I did think that maybe the Dresden books and their problems would take up too much time if they weren't worth the effort,"
But, by your "I'm an Anita Blake fan" statement, you determined that a female serial rapist WAS worth the time? Her child rape was worth the effort? Her inability to stop herself from taking away men's ability to say no and taking them sexually against their will wasn't too much of a problem for you?
I can help you out here: Harry doesn't rape anyone. No one at all. Not a teenager, not an adult, no one. So, as the threshold for you seems to be "I can handle books that involve serial rape", then you should breeeeeeeze through the Dresden books. He's a freakin' saint comparatively.
~Aramada